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Nice guys come last. - Ed's journal
sobrique
sobrique
Nice guys come last.
I read an article a while back, about this very subject.
I've heard it expressed or have observed it at numerous occasions.

What the quote refers to is the situation in which "nice guys" don't end up with girlfriends, decent jobs, exciting lives etc. where "bastards" do.

There's a problem with this. Typically the complaint comes from the 'nice guy' himself. You know, missing out on stuff because no one notices how nice they are, and actually they _deserve_ to do well.

The thing that typically distinguishes bastard from nice guy in these complaints is this: The nice guy was waiting for someone to notice. Waiting for that dream job to come along, or waiting for that girl he is obsessing about to notice.

The best things don't come to those that wait. The best things come to those who are prepared to reach out for their dreams.

Relationships, jobs, life doesn't just magically spread out in front of anyone. If you want a job, they're not going to telepathically figure out that actually you're great and are perfect for this job. Or that girl you fancy can't read your mind, and quite possibly isn't sure either. So unless you make it clear, then nothing is going to happen. And eventually one or other is going to get bored with waiting. Remember, that we're still in a very male oriented society, so if anything the bloke has the _easier_ time.

Occasionally someone will intervene, but more often than not that just creates a short term relationship that's build on a foundation of resentment.

So if you really are a nice guy, who's really talented, and would be great, then don't just let things slip by.

They do say it's better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved.
The correlary is that it's better to ask the question, than to always wonder.

Rejection of any sort sucks but the pain fades quick - after all, if it's not mutual (in either job or relationship) then it's probably not going to work anyway - Following someone around and hoping they'll notice that you're nice is just a good way to annoy yourself, them, and everyone else.

Now me, I'm a coward about such things. I'm getting better at the job thing, but chatting up girls? Naa. I need way more practice before I'm going to feel confident about doing so.

I'm not going to complain at how all these people I thought were gorgeous ended up with the wrong bloke (specifically not me - is that selfish? Yep.). I'm sure most are actually pretty content - after all, they got what they were after.

I never said anything. I never did anything. So can I really be surprised that actually, they didn't notice I was interested?

Nice guys don't come last. They may get less sex overall, but if the day comes that they meet the girl of their dreams, and actually do something about it, then they'll probably be very well set for the rest of their life.

Oh and for the record:
Nice guys don't whine.
... don't think of themselves as 'Nice Guys'.
... don't obsess about someone, hoping they'll notice and think that their obsession is really nice.
... don't wait for the world to come to them.

That's selfish, arrogant, dependant, lazy or introverted.
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Comments
wolflady26 From: wolflady26 Date: March 18th, 2004 12:46 pm (UTC) (Link)
That's something I desperately wish more "nice guys" would understand.
jorune From: jorune Date: March 18th, 2004 02:28 pm (UTC) (Link)
Nice guys finish last or Nice guys come second.

Whilst some people push their luck and get away with it, many others push too hard and fall flat on the face impaling themselves on the upturned chair. So many of these experiences/urban myths come out of school days. An artificial environment where the 'bastards' can flourish in the closed world of a small classroom and wider school.

A few go on and extend their antics to affect the wider community in crime and the corporate world. These people are the exception as modern society and the welfare state is the creation of 'nice guys' throughout the ages.

I can recall an article from New scientist in the late 80's which pitched competing models for the computer simulation called 'The Game of Life'. This was to be the ultimate contest between two camps, those who believe the 'game' is won by simulation that seeks to conquer and control and those whose models are co-operative and support a wider community. The extensive article reported that the study behind the experiment concluded that the 'positive' co-operative model was noticeably more successful than the 'command and conquer' method.

Nice guys finish last, first, and do what it takes to get the job done. Just how many nice guys are there? There should be more.

Rejection, pain, suffering. That's your average relationship between average people who are just born into this world for simple lives until they experience the point of revelation and wonder that brings joy and glory. The splash of colour for a black and white world.

Oh and if you want to get involved with a woman, clarify your position on children, settling down, liking her friends, getting the good job, a dependable career. That is a stable environment in which it would be good to raise a family. That's commitment. Once you achieved that level of honesty and self confidence you're a different person with a different future.

Is that what you really want?
karen2205 From: karen2205 Date: March 18th, 2004 04:37 pm (UTC) (Link)
Before I forget - go ahead and use what I said in that comment about CVs and stuff.

Here - don't try to 'chat up' anyone - no one really appreciates it. Personally, I find it very off putting (but that's probably more down to quirky Karenness). Just talk to people as individuals and see what happens. If you find yourself feeling more strongly about someone then tell her this.
(Deleted comment)
sobrique From: sobrique Date: March 22nd, 2004 06:59 am (UTC) (Link)
"Rejection of any sort sucks but the pain fades quick"

Leaves a scar though. Repeated rejection really does start to Fuck with you.


Yes. Leaving you with 3 options. 1: Try again, maybe circumstances weren't right (different company, different job, different person). 2: Try and find out why, and fix it.
3: Mope around and feel miserable.

"Nice don't think of themselves as 'Nice Guys'."

Utter bollocks! Why does a realistic view of what you are prevent you from being a "Nice Guy"? A realistic view of the world means you're more likely to be clinically depressed, but what's that got to do with you being a nice guy or not?


I stand by my assertion. If a person truly believes themself to be a nice guy, they are either a saint and have no flaws, or arrogant beyond delusion.

It's one thing to be aware of things that you can do well - social skills, technical skills, whatever.
It's another entirely to decide what everyone elses opinion of you is or should be. Nice is a subjective measure.
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